NecroRam Testing

[necrolyte]

IOG EXCLUSIVE

Okay guys, so I know it's been rumored a while on the shoutbox and such about me working on some new stuff.

I've come up with the NecroRam. It's lighter than the stock ram, Eigen Ram, Epek Ram, and any other known ram to date. Weighing at only 5 grams compared to stock weight of 33 grams!

http://www.interiortechnology.net/necrolyte/necroram/newram.jpg

This ram reduces all of the kick as I can tell. LPR pressure can be reduced, and we are hoping to see efficiency increase.

This is a Gen 1-3 Ram. Gen 4 and Gen 5 to come soon!


NOW AVAILABLE FOR PREORDER!!!

The NecroRam comes as a kit as seen below.
http://www.interiortechnology.net/necrolyte/necroram/necroram_kit.jpg

The kit comes with the ram, an extra set of orings, spring, and washer. The washer is for what I call a 2k5 washer mod. The front block on a 2k5 has a larger flow hole, which means that the spring included will actually go into the front block. The washer is put in place to give the new spring something to sit on.

I will release a price for these kits once I get feedback from testers.

I do want to give thanks out to the current testers who should be recieving their kits in the mail soon.

OllieLeet
Bronze
Daigz
BigRed
Twisted_Mister
DFSniper

They will be reporting on how they like it, what it helps with, and overall comments.

I have done some personal testing with the ram in my ABomb, and have posted videos on YouTube. One test is me trying to shoot one handed and film, the other is my wife (who has NEVER shot a paintball marker before) unloading an entire Velocity Jr hopper. Pay attention to the marker, as she doesn't know how to control a marker like we do, and you can tell there is really no kick and very little barrel rise.

Videos Are Here! (http://www.youtube.com/necroballa)

Please only post in this thread IF you are a tester. It will be reserved for those only, and I will request any other post be deleted by moderators (or Daigz will do it automatically).
I'm doing this so we can keep all testing results in one easy to find place.

Thanks all!

[necrolyte]

Reserved for more updates and pictures and videos.

Necrolyte's Test Videos on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/necroballa) - LPR @ 60 psi, Dwell @ 12ms.

Pictures Thanks to BigRed of his Beta Ram. (http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/7166663_QJYdN#459995288_2hirm)

Bronze test video. (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n167/bronzealero/?action=view&current=100_0546.flv) - Dwell @ 12ms, LPR @ 50psi, FPS @ 260 - (280 shots, 500 psi)

Bronze's Update Ram Cap Video (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n167/bronzealero/paintball/?action=view&current=100_0555.flv) - Shows use of adjustable ram cap.

Bronze showing a PURPOSELY broke NecroRam. Broken outside the gun, just to do it. (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n167/bronzealero/?action=view&current=100_0573.flv)

DFSniper Shooting with NecroRam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_WnVA_CMJM)

[DFSniper]

I'll edit this post with a write-up once i'm done. Still working on fixing my leak.

The first thing I found out is that the best way to install the spring on a 2k5 front block is to put two drops of superglue on the washer to hold the spring and washer together, then put the poppet in first, with the spring on top.

edit: 2-10-09

Setup:
2k5 Dark Timmy
stock Function bolt
stock Lucky15 barrel
CP Direct Mount
Function 2k2 bumperless ram cap
CCM No-Pro clamping feedneck

Hopper:
Evolution 3

Tank:
Pure Energy 48/3000ci

Settings:
Dwell - 8.5ms
BIP - 1.5ms
Bolt - 10ms
Delay - 30
Debounce - 10.0
MBounce - 2


I finally got around to shooting it today, even with the leak. LPR was at 60psi, HPR was at about 400, and i was getting from 278-289 fps, with most of my shots around 286, and the occasional spike to 298! But I'm going to blame that on the leak. I was using Marbalizers which fit perfectly in my .689 Lucky15 barrel. After tuning and running about 200 paintballs through it, I went back inside and pulled out the fake reballs I got off ebay. after shooting about 100 at 11-12 bps, I checked my tank, and I used about 500 psi.

When I get the time, I'll throw the stock ram back in and check air consumption.

[Ollieleet]

I'll edit this post when I'm done testing.

Testing will be done 13 days from today.

Okay, I've done a little over 1000 reball testing at 260 feet per second my LPR was set to 45 PSI & my dwell was at 10. HPR I'm unsure of, I noticed over the 1000 reball course next to zero kick & barrel rise, installation was a breeze just a simple spring to drop in. overall from my limited testing I would recommend this ram to anyone in need of an upgrade ram more testing to come, also to note these reballs have swelled up to around a .697 bore size or larger (no dodgy) so efficiency may vary.

Alright, I did a little bit of umm..not sure what to call it so we'll just say I beat the crap out of it...

Tools use:
Hammer
Socket Wrench
5 Iron
Various hits to hard tile

After all this the ram was still in perfect condition, so all of you that are worried about the material, don't be. no physical damage what so ever, no scratches, no dings, nothing at all. So if you're the kind of person that likes throwing their ram on the floor, beating it with a golf club, or even just enjoys hitting it with a hammer this is perfect for you!

I forgot to add, I did a bit more testing later on (about a case more) same results.

[bronze]

First day of play with reballs and the ram. Started out tough cause the reballs kept getting stuck in the barrel. So the settings i had are for reball and feel i could do better for paint, So lpr was at 55PSI, dwell was at 12 and was shooting the field limit of 260FPS. as for shots per tank. i didnt keep hard numbers of this. oone game i got about 2 pods and a hopper off about 1000psi. i have a 70 45 tank also. Which isnt too shabby.

While playing with the gun i was impressed. i was using a stock PE 693 barrel:facepalm:. yes i agree not the best but all other barrels got crammed with crap from the reballs. it was shooting some nice tight ropes. im a large guy 6"4 300 pounds. the kick of the gun i didnt notice.


overall im pleased. cant wait until i try with paint and lower the settings even more.

[Daigz525]

I have completed testing of the Gen 3 NecroRam as of this weekend. I apologize for the delay however I wanted to make sure that I put enough paint through it to actually get a valid review.

In total I shot 2500 paintballs (not reballs) through the ram, handed it to a teammate who then put another 4,000 on it in an attempt for destructive testing. We were both shooting Alias intimidators, mine was a little bit of a mutant as it is a project marker that hasn't been to the Anno shop yet, the other was a stock alias aside from lurker ram.

To start I brought the marker back into suggested settings for an Alias from the BLAST manual. I then installed the necroram with a tiny bit of Kila Ice Cream (lube) on the actual ram itself [don't like it... DEAL WITH IT]. After shooting a pod or so I dropped my LPR down to 50 psi and adjusted my dwell to 12. I then increased my HPR until I reached field limit of 280 fps. The marker performed extremely well with little to no noticable kit (against the stock ram).

My teammate brought his settings into accordance with the Lurker suggestions and then replaced his lurker ram with the necroram. immeditely he dropped his LPR from 65 to 55 psi and adjusted his dwell to 12. Against his lurker ram there was no difference in kick or barrel rise.

After the 6,000+ shots put on the ram in one afternoon we pulled it out to inspect it. There were no noticable marks or scratchs on the ram. The areas where Ice Cream was placed did have some indication of rub but the lube appeared to have reduced any potential damage. More info will come as I keep it in my marker.

~Daigz

[Ollieleet]

Testing Updated

[Ollieleet]

testing updated again!

[BigRed76]

Right now I'm handing the ram over to TooLittleTooLate for testing, so I will post up my CURRENT test results. These are subject to editting and additions as I see fit until proper long-term testing has been completed (this will take 6mos, longer than most are willing to wait).

Marker I used was the Shunut Spimmy, with WAS 2.9, Sidewinder HPR, Verdkit LPR, and 2k2 internals.

HPR at 180psi-220psi depending on velocity requirements (tested at both 250fps for reball users, 275fps, 285fps, and 300fps). LPR at 60-65psi. Dwell at 10ms.

Efficiency extrapolates to about 2000-2500 shots per 68/45, fully filled cold. Depending on FSDO and HPR settings due to altitude, temperature, FPS, and ROF, I am expanding the range of efficiency so that I'm not damning myself with an exact number.

This ram is VERY durable. After taking it out of my marker and cleaning off all the lube, you could not tell whether it was new or used. This material is by far the best composite I've seen and used, even better than Nylatron and it's derivatives.

For what Necro's thinking of charging for it, I recommend one HIGHLY if you do not already have an upgraded ram. I would not say that people should just jump ship if you have an Eigenram or Epek ram, as that would be unfair to his competition and I don't "throw people under the bus..." but this ram is extraordinary from the customer service to the performance to the quality of the product.

Now for the TL;DR: ****ING AWESOME PRODUCT BY AN AWESOME DUDE! 9.9/10 taking into the account that it gets the usual deduction for not making my marker shoot heat-seeking paintballs. As soon as he rectifies this it will be the 10/10 this ram truly deserves.

[Stewey956]

Reserved for testing.

[toolittletoolate]

OK, just did a quick test with the necroram.
Chrono'd in at ~280FPS
Dwell 12
LPR ~50psi
I only shot about a bag through it just to see how it is.
Very little barrel rise, mainly due to the bolt cycling.
I got a bag out of ~900psi from my 88/45 LP tank.
Like Bronze I had to remove the ram bumper from my Hybrid ram cap for the bolt to clear the breach properly.
When I first got the ram the ram DID NOT FIT. I was told by BR that it fit in his Spimmy, but it DID NOT FIT in my 2k2 ramsleeve. Necro says that the ramsleeves are .250" and the ram I have was also .250" so it wouldn't fit into the small section of the sleeve to hit the poppet. Necro also said he milled the rams down to .247" so they would fit but alas mine was .250". So after a minute or two on a drill and file I filed then sanded it down to the correct OD and now it fits perfect. Necro and I have already discussed this and he has resolved the issue.
I will be doing further testing on the ram in the very near future so this post will either get updated or I'll just do a new one.

[necrolyte]

Updated with a new Video. Bronze asked me if he could try to break his ram outside the gun, just to do it. I said sure! See what it'll take.

He shows you what happened in the video I posted. It DID break, but NOT inside a gun, this was forcefully broke. The forces applied will never happen inside a marker.

[bronze]

I'll explain a bit more. I was excited about testing and inspired by ollieleets abuse to his ram, so i went ape on mine. I stood on top of the ram on concrete floor and rug. I am 300 pounds and that did NO damage. Just to prove that if the ram falls off ur table and u step on it, that it will do no damage. aka Normal abuse!

HOW I BROKE IT, i broke it on purpose with my hands. in the video it snaped at the bolt pin area. It does bend slightly before it gives.

[toolittletoolate]

I will be conducting testing with a frozen ram. The necroram is in the freezer and will remain there until Monday at which point I will put it in my gun and start shooting!! This post will be updated with the results.

EDIT:
OK just took the ram out of the freezer and dry fired my tank empty, had 3k left. NO problems worked fine. I could tell that it is a lot less flexible then it was before I put it in the freezer. So it preformed just like I thought it would.

[DFSniper]

updated post #3: http://www.intimidatorowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27508&postcount=3

[necrolyte]

Thanks for updating Daigz!!!

[DFSniper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAy7hNJjd_s

[necrolyte]

New video from Bronze and Ollie. You guys rock :tup:

Dwell on 12 ms, LPR at 55. 1000 rnds of Marbs on around 2000 psi on a 70/45 tank.

YouTube Video Here (http://www.pbnation.com/out.php?l=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CgzJSKibCg&fmt=18)

Thanks guys!

[SlvrDragon50]

Win!

Should shut up those PbNers

[SpyderMan723]

Win!

Should shut up those PbNers

hey :( im a PBNer.

lol btw ollie i flamed you on youtube :P

[oldironmudder]

New video from Bronze and Ollie. You guys rock :tup:

Dwell on 12 ms, LPR at 55. 1000 rnds of Marbs on around 2000 psi on a 70/45 tank.

YouTube Video Here (http://www.pbnation.com/out.php?l=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CgzJSKibCg&fmt=18)

Thanks guys!

What does that come to, amount of air per ball?

[SpyderMan723]

2 psi per ball

[oldironmudder]

2psi - kool but what size? Like .5ci @ 2psi

[bronze]

Win!

Should shut up those PbNers

it did and pretty fast. now they dislike me using a caddy and say my gun is loud lol:rolleyes:


Edit: just wanted to add this. barrel was frosted over completely and still no breaks or chops. and i agree using marbs is overkill but thats how i do it. And my pro shop only got my tank to 2300psi, otherwise i would of shot the whole case.

[necrolyte]

(70*2000)/1000 = 140psi per shot

Or 2250 shots per 70/45 full fill.

Thanks BigRed :)

[Depth]

thats damn good, hope the gen5 is like that :D

[BigRed76]

Another thing you should have done that Ollie suggested was to spot-check the chrono and show how much it changes (if at all) over 1k balls consistently being fired. I understand you comment in the vid about "who cares in a game," but... it proves the quality and consistency of the product.

Oh, and Ollie, get yer scrawny *** out of the camera's view. :D

:tup: on the vid otherwise.

[bronze]

Another thing you should have done that Ollie suggested was to spot-check the chrono and show how much it changes (if at all) over 1k balls consistently being fired. I understand you comment in the vid about "who cares in a game," but... it proves the quality and consistency of the product.

Oh, and Ollie, get yer scrawny *** out of the camera's view. :D

:tup: on the vid otherwise.


Thanks. should of done it but the tank was darn near killed off. The rounds where still hitting the target as straight as an arrow and breaking, so i was satisfied with the velocity. i honestly didnt want to take a chrono reading of it shooting low, would just be more flames from pbners.

[BigRed76]

The wonderful thing about filming is that if something is unsatisfactory, it rarely meets the final cut. When I shot the last event, I took just about 2,000 pictures. 1200-1400 pictures are actually on my website. :eek: Judging by the tank fill, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it dropped a few FPS. I'm sure noone on PBN could complain if you had 300psi left in the tank and were just starting to see drop-off. That's better than a Geo could do! :D

[Daigz525]

I'm looking to talk with those of you who are testing the Gen 4 rams right now. I'm having an issue getting my velocity up. I have the ram firing fine (I had to cut the necrospring down) but I can't get my velocity up at all.

Stock spring/ram was at 287-293, after installing necro ram/spring it dropped to 145ish....

I cranked up my HPR to get some more velocity and got it to 230ish but was having some blowback from the feedneck. Just for fun I cranked HPR WAYYYY up and hit velocity of 280 but the second ball in the feedneck shot up and broke on my ceiling :eek:

my settings will be posted later tonight. I'm going to stop by the shop and get my tanks filled so I can rip some more paint tonight. Hopefully adjusting some of the settings will help this issue out.

What is everyone else running at/on? What sort of issues are you guys having?

[GOD]

I think Chris is working on a new spring or something, he needed a stock poppet spring so I sent him mine. He should have everything worked out shortly.

[BigRed76]

Sounds like it's activating the valve too soon. This would cause the blow-back you're seeing. You can help combat this by upping your dwell to counteract the HPR pressure needed.

[Daigz525]

interesting BR, I'll have to check that out tonight.

[BigRed76]

Chris probably will rectify the issue by making the ram shorter, and thus it will keep the valve from opening until the bolt is past the feedneck. Just a "whoops" sorta thing. With less pressure and the valve open longer it will deliver the same amount of force, but it will be less of a punch, and thus less air blowing up the feedneck. Do me a favor and compare the two rams (stock and Necro) side by side, and take some measurements of the differences. There has to be one if the stock ram didn't do this.

It also would cause the low velocity as half the air's just going through the feedneck. With what you said, it sounds like once the issue is resolved, the HPR will be about half what it is when you shot the ball upwards at the ceiling, if not less. The weight of the ram might also contribute, but I think it's the length that is the culprit.

[necrolyte]

I did have a Gen4 ram to go off of for the Gen4 NecroRam, so it shouldnt be a problem of length or anything. Not sure what the problem could be, besides the spring being ghetto.

I was sent a ram..with no spring. :) (Thanks Stew!)

[Daigz525]

yea the ram is the same size.. Next time Chris call me and I'll send you both (just like with the Gen 5 ram/spring). BAD STEWY

[necrolyte]

Yep, I just forgot you had a gen4 :)

[Stewey956]

I'm looking to talk with those of you who are testing the Gen 4 rams right now. I'm having an issue getting my velocity up. I have the ram firing fine (I had to cut the necrospring down) but I can't get my velocity up at all.

Stock spring/ram was at 287-293, after installing necro ram/spring it dropped to 145ish....

I cranked up my HPR to get some more velocity and got it to 230ish but was having some blowback from the feedneck. Just for fun I cranked HPR WAYYYY up and hit velocity of 280 but the second ball in the feedneck shot up and broke on my ceiling :eek:

my settings will be posted later tonight. I'm going to stop by the shop and get my tanks filled so I can rip some more paint tonight. Hopefully adjusting some of the settings will help this issue out.

What is everyone else running at/on? What sort of issues are you guys having?

Your problem sounds like mine aside form the blow back.

I had it a little over 300 but that is when the poppet O-Ring blew off.

[Daigz525]

Upped dwell, fixed blow back.

Unfortunately i'm out of air, no more testing for tonight :(

[Stewey956]

Post your frickin settings rofl.

[Daigz525]

ughhhh hang on.....

[Daigz525]

Marker: Empire 2
Board: Virtue
LPR: 80 (I know it's high, deal with it for now)
HDR: 1/2 turn below blowing o-rings out
dwell: 10
anti-mech bounce: 2
dbounce: 4
max bps: 10 (setting 1), 25 (setting 2, for those wipers out there...)

[Stewey956]

Up your dwell to 11 or 12 Should solve some issue. For now I have a leak out of one of the barbs on my noid....otherwise everything is sealed.

[GOD]

Hey Chris, the NecroRam that cam with the Dragon2.5 I picked up off LWard is too long. I've got the bumpered ram cap all the way out and the bolt still sticks too far into the breach for balls to drop.

On a positive note, there isn't a single problem with the ST bolt pin popping out even at crazy high ROF.

[DFSniper]

take the bumper off the cap.

[GOD]

But then there's no bumper!!! And it might damage the bumper holder...

[necrolyte]

Bronze is shooting the same way IIRC (With the bumper removed). It's designed to work with bumperless ramcaps, and should not distort the bumper holder. A lot of people have removed the bumper with no problems.

[Ollieleet]

Yep, Bronze uses it without a bumper, works perfectly fine.

[toolittletoolate]

I also had to run it without a bumper in my ram cap and it didn't distort it at all.

[GOD]

I went ahead and just made my own bumper. Just thin enough that the bolt barely is visible in the breach and just thick enough that it keeps the ram and brass bumper holder from ever touching.
(Adjustment screw is all the way backed out.)