Gen5 Vice/Protege NecroRam

[necrolyte]

Okay, I told you guys I've been working on this. This is just a slight teaser. More testing has definatly gotta be done.

http://www.necropb.com/

Comment away.

[jmartinez1228]

:eek: GET THE EFFFFFFFFFFFF OUT, i need to get my vice back

[necrolyte]

Not sure on the BPS on that video yet, I come up with 25-28 bps. I think we are maxing out the stock solenoid or either the Tadao M8 board. I know the Rotor is capable of 40+ bps.

Also as far as efficiency, because I know you are all wondering...

With testing yesterday on a HOT 4500 psi fill on a 45/45 tank (really around 4000 psi), with 1000 shots (half a case), plus dry firing a few times, the tank reads 2000 psi left.

Refill the tank to 4000 hot fill, another half a case, and back to 2000 psi left.

I can see us getting a full case out of a 45/45 without many problems I hope.

[Tucan9999]

Wow I will definatly buy 1. If you need a tester hit me up.

[SpyderMan723]

lpr at 90psi!? sounds kinda...idk

but damn that thing was fast!

edit:What was the velocity at?

[necrolyte]

Yep, working on getting the LPR back down. That is testing on STOCK SPRING as well.

[excessiveego]

Not sure on the BPS on that video yet, I come up with 25-28 bps. I think we are maxing out the stock solenoid or either the Tadao M8 board. I know the Rotor is capable of 40+ bps.

Also as far as efficiency, because I know you are all wondering...

With testing yesterday on a HOT 4500 psi fill on a 45/45 tank (really around 4000 psi), with 1000 shots (half a case), plus dry firing a few times, the tank reads 2000 psi left.

Refill the tank to 4000 hot fill, another half a case, and back to 2000 psi left.

I can see us getting a full case out of a 45/45 without many problems I hope.
you arent maxing out your solenoid or board, both are capable of over 30bps, id say you are maxing out your hopper........... alot of rotors dont perform as well as advertised, 4.5 volts isnt enough voltage for some of the motors (dye has multiple factories building rotors, and they are using a few different motors)
lpr at 90psi!? sounds kinda...idk

but damn that thing was fast!

edit:What was the velocity at?

and yes, 90psi seems awfully high

[BigRed76]

Just confirmed it myself, 25-28bps. The marker is so quiet that the background noise makes it hard to tell, hence why I'm giving myself the safety net of a range. :)

Board's capped at 28bps according to the M8 manual.

[necrolyte]

Seems high, sure, but its working great with no kick.

We may be increasing LPR by 20 psi from stock, but at the volume of air that the LPR uses per shot is so low...that

With the HPR turned down to 110-120 PSI (instead of 180-220 psi), the amount of air you are actually saving is unbelievable.

Like I said, more testing is due, I'm working on getting the LPR back down right now. I'd like to see it settle around 60 psi. BLAST is even working with me to get me a lighter spring with the same design as the stock spring.

Interesting to know about the hopper as well. I havent done a drop test so I don't know what it'll really feed. I didnt imagine we could outrun a rotor since its the newest greatest thing capable of 50 bps :) but I can see that happening, which is good news.

Another amazing thing, is that paint we were shooting is Ultra Evil, its a super brittle paint, and as you can see, no breaks, and we done it with a full case, just recorded it twice.

[SpyderMan723]

coooool

[excessiveego]

Just confirmed it myself, 25-28bps. The marker is so quiet that the background noise makes it hard to tell, hence why I'm giving myself the safety net of a range. :)

Board's capped at 28bps according to the M8 manual.

how did you come up with 25-28?

[excessiveego]

im coming up with 30bps on goldwave

[necrolyte]

I dont have anything able to tell here, I was just basing mine off the time it took to shoot 200 rnds.

[BigRed76]

im coming up with 30bps on goldwave

You can come up with that if you'd like, but I'm trying to be safe rather than sorry. ;) It sounds like that range, takes about the right time for that range, and looks like that on my GoldWave, so I'm sticking with my statement.

[DFSniper]

BLAST is even working with me to get me a lighter spring with the same design as the stock spring.


now thats pretty cool

[Tucan9999]

If its legitamently hitting 30 and geaining efficency and reducing the little kick it has I will buy it ina heart beat.

[oldironmudder]

What were you getting with the stock ram?

Basicly what did stock look like next to your ram?

[Six_Shooter]

You're making me want a Necroram even more. :runaway: :facewall:

I want to turn my ramping on just once to see how it shoots that way.

I've been using semi only.

You're freaking teasing me with the idea of increased efficiancy with this Mythical gen5 Necroram. :mad: :facepalm: :dodgy: :D

[necrolyte]

Stock Ram I think we are getting just at a case with 68/4500, or just over a case.

[fivestring]

Chris, Oh My GoSH....that is seriously outstanding!!!

I will litterally walk to your house when these are ready. I have cash in hand brutha.

Holy Crap you just took the vice to the next level!! Way To GO

-Nick

PS, is Daig doing the testing? I was thinking that vice was the colors that he said he was getting straight from BLAST.

[Marshall]

Where do I pre-order this lol

[necrolyte]

Not ready yet, soon I hope :)

[necrolyte]

Chris, Oh My GoSH....that is seriously outstanding!!!

I will litterally walk to your house when these are ready. I have cash in hand brutha.

Holy Crap you just took the vice to the next level!! Way To GO

-Nick

PS, is Daig doing the testing? I was thinking that vice was the colors that he said he was getting straight from BLAST.

Nope, that isnt Daigz in the video. My field owner bought one of the SAME Vices that Daigz got, how ironic :)

I figured someone would notice, lol.

[fivestring]

Right on.

Hey did you get my message, you gonna play ball next saturday?? I am definitely a go for motoring up to your field for the day!!
-Nick

[SpyderMan723]

Necro do you have a 68/45? if so i request an efficiency test! :D

[necrolyte]

Efficiency test with a 68/45? Yeah I could probably do that. It'll be up near 3k shots or so I'm sure.

fivestring: I'm skipping this weekend to play next weekend. I have a car show I think I'm suppose to be at, but I will let you know for sure tonight/tommorrow.

[Megatron]

It'll be up near 3k shots or so I'm sure.

:eek: you have got to be $hit'n us!!!! around 3000 shots?! gotta have one!!!

[necrolyte]

Well, with figuring 2000 shots off a 45/45 (which is a tad low I think, we ended up with like 2300 off a full fill)


Around 101 psi per shot, which is high, I think I had it figured around 88 psi per shot, but anyway.


At 101 psi per shot, you should see 3029 shots out of a 68/45 fill.

At my numbers of 88 psi per shot, you should see 3477 shots. Give or take a few :)

This is all numbers so far, im still testing.

[SpyderMan723]

mother of god. :D

[Lurker27]

Well, with figuring 2000 shots off a 45/45 (which is a tad low I think, we ended up with like 2300 off a full fill)


Around 101 psi per shot, which is high, I think I had it figured around 88 psi per shot, but anyway.


At 101 psi per shot, you should see 3029 shots out of a 68/45 fill.

At my numbers of 88 psi per shot, you should see 3477 shots. Give or take a few :)

This is all numbers so far, im still testing.

This isn't even thermodynamically possible. It takes around 13 joules to fire a paintball to 300fps, and 68*4500 = 34572 joules

=2659 at 100% efficiency


Edit: which doesn't mean your shot numbers are wrong necessarily, they're just at a much lower field velocity than most players shoot. I'm sorry to always be the dude doubting you, but seriously, this one is a no brainer.

[SpyderMan723]

this is why we need vids!

[Omega Ra]

Well, with figuring 2000 shots off a 45/45 (which is a tad low I think, we ended up with like 2300 off a full fill)


Around 101 psi per shot, which is high, I think I had it figured around 88 psi per shot, but anyway.


At 101 psi per shot, you should see 3029 shots out of a 68/45 fill.

At my numbers of 88 psi per shot, you should see 3477 shots. Give or take a few :)

This is all numbers so far, im still testing.

This isn't even thermodynamically possible. It takes around 13 joules to fire a paintball to 300fps, and 68*4500 = 34572 joules

=2659 at 100% efficiency


Edit: which doesn't mean your shot numbers are wrong necessarily, they're just at a much lower field velocity than most players shoot. I'm sorry to always be the dude doubting you, but seriously, this one is a no brainer.

as he said, still in testing, that is just numbers. But also most people don't fire at 300fps. lots of fields have caps of 275-280 fps.

[Lurker27]

Those numbers are still impossible at 280fps. And that's before you consider that you're unlikely to get good performance below your tank's output pressure @ ROF. The point is while it's important to know that efficiency isn't diminished, there is no good reason to believe that a ram will increase efficiency over what a tuned stock system would do.

[fivestring]

Lurker,

I don't claim to be well versed in fluid or thermo dynamics (infact I took those courses and passed them because I had to to get my Civil Engineering Degree) but your own math (posted 9-17-2006 on PBnation in a thread discussing your Eigenram) shows that at a velocity of 285fps you have a thoretical total shot count of 2863 shots for a full 68/4500 tank. http://www.pbnation.com/archive/index.php/t-1762680.html

Your own estimate is only a difference 163 rounds shy of Necrolyte's estimate. I say maybe lay off a bit here. His estimates are base on inplace testing and as we all know we do not live in "physics land" and therefore things don't always end up like they might on paper. This may mean to you that the efficiency numbers should be lower because we are not in the perfect world of "physics land" but frankly his results are what they are. I think they are stupendous.

Thats all I'll say on the subject because frankly if the Necroram is getting the results it is then that is superb and I cannot wait to get one. I have had two Eigenrams and I loved them.

Personally I'm excited to see someone take a new interest in the Timmy platform and I can't wait to see what he comes up w/.

Keep it up Necro!!!

-Nick

[BigRed76]

I was talking with a nice man named Druid last night about this, and comparing it to his Stage 5 Ion that ran about the same... Theoretically absolutely impossible for an Ion to run 4ms of dwell and shoot 280fps at 25bps, but he did it.

Lurker, it is theoretically possible if the marker has shot the rounds and we have extrapolated the numbers for it from there. Now, these numbers are of course a best case scenario, but they are still direct extrapolations of what this product is capable of. Go ahead and try your math on me, you're being a bit basic.

[SpyderMan723]

owned.

[vi3telit3]

I've run the numbers myself real quick. Assuming all the energy in the tank is transferred without loss to only accelerating paintballs to 300 fps, you can get close to 6000 shots. But that's all I can say, I don't want to speculate on how much energy is lost in translation through gun operation and air lost on each shot. I'm more apt to believe lurker, but if I saw a continuous test of you firing even 2500 paintbals out of the gun, it'd probably make my day and you'd have a new customer. :)

[BigRed76]

Using $75 worth of one paint to prove it? Lol... They took a half case of paint and ran it through the marker. The math has been done to extrapolate how many shots potentially could come out of a tank. I seriously doubt Necro or any of the rest of us will drop $75 on paint for one measly video when the ones already shot show the same thing, just shorter and easier for everyone.

[SpyderMan723]

why not just buy really ****ty cheap paint. i can prolly get two cases of OK paint for less than the price of 1 case of marb

[GOD]

Reballs any one?

[SpyderMan723]

good idear

[necrolyte]

Gen5 is still in testing, and numbers are numbers. I will personally try and get some real world video tests coming up soon.

I am in process of looking for a digital 5000 psi gauge for the tank, as well as digital gauges to make HPR and LPR testers with. This will aid in testing. Probably a waste of money, but its just money right?

We are still playing with the design of the ram and other componants to make the system work completely. I promise to keep everyone updated.

[vi3telit3]

You're too good to us necro :)

[toolittletoolate]

I'm very interested to see how the numbers are in the end.

[Lurker27]

I've run the numbers myself real quick. Assuming all the energy in the tank is transferred without loss to only accelerating paintballs to 300 fps, you can get close to 6000 shots. But that's all I can say, I don't want to speculate on how much energy is lost in translation through gun operation and air lost on each shot. I'm more apt to believe lurker, but if I saw a continuous test of you firing even 2500 paintbals out of the gun, it'd probably make my day and you'd have a new customer. :)

I agree that firing 2500 paintballs at full field velocity from a gun would be extremely impressive, so much so that it's likely that no marker in the history of paintball has ever done it. I suppose if you're firing fast enough to lower your velocity 30 or so fps it might be possible, but the point stands - no one can beat unity efficiency, not by 150 shots, not by a single shot. And in fact no one comes even close in the real world. Meaning that something must be up. If anyone claiming 3k+ shots from a 68/45 doesn't throw up a massive red flag, you're hopelessly credulous. At any rate, if you're further interested in these matters I implore you to PM me, I don't want to clutter these threads with discussions of empirical observations versus theoretical limits - just remember that it is very rare that the theory comes out incorrect.

[Daigz525]

I think that we need to just wait for the ram to get to some testers (if you need on necro you know where to find me) and see what they ACTUALLY get at the field.

Keep good notes and such. Should help out with the real world data...

[necrolyte]

Yep. Post up your Gen4 findings Daigz :)

[Seb_RH]

im hoping testing goes well and fast because i would love to pick up a few before CXBL season starts up

[Daigz525]

Ughhhh, forgot about the gen 4 (I've been using my vice non-stop!) I'll get to it this weekend. I totally forgot about it. I may be able to shoot some paint after I get out of work in my back yard. I'll post up my findings on the Gen 4 ASAP.

[Depth]

hows the work on the gen5 coming. after the results from the lighter ram i am itching to know what you are doing to make it operate at a lower PSI

[Mitch]

Probably has been asked before, but to give a ball park idea, when do you think these are going to be available to the public? And do you need any other testers? :P I know about 20 diffrent vice shooters that could do a round and test them out ;) (Vice sponsorship last year) Thanx!

[necrolyte]

I think I've got plenty of testers lined up, but thanks for asking.

I'm still undergoing some testing, still working to get the LPR down to a resonable number! I dont like 90psi, and I dont think anyone else does either. I'm happy with the HPR though at 120 psi.

I'll update everyone if I make a breakthru.

[Mitch]

Sounds good!

[gamer565]

just out of curiosity, are you using the stock poppet or lp poppet?


i read through some of the thread and didnt see it said anywhere.

[necrolyte]

Testing has been done with the LP Poppet.

[toolittletoolate]

I think I've got plenty of testers lined up, but thanks for asking.

I'm still undergoing some testing, still working to get the LPR down to a resonable number! I dont like 90psi, and I dont think anyone else does either. I'm happy with the HPR though at 120 psi.

I'll update everyone if I make a breakthru.

I talked with Bob about it some yesterday down here at HB. His main thing is the LPR pressure, dwell being so low and same with HPR don't seem to matter to him as much as the LPR being so high.

[fivestring]

I saw it in action today and shot the vice w/ the one and only prototype in it. Wheeeeeee!!!! Living relativly close to Necrolyte is a good thing.

Keep up the hard work bud.

-Nick

[Redbeard75]

A few of us on the team will be getting them when they are done, and we will be spreading the good word :)

Very excited and very impatient :P

[necrolyte]

Yep, fivestring got to come hang out at the best field in the world today and play. I know I'm sore and tired, lol.

[Depth]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3044610

this might interest you necro, by the sounds of things tis allowing more air flow in, might work with a lighter ram thats not opening the popper enough... erego workign witha lower LPR. just a thought, but you might be sending out rams with poppets soon :P im sure you can buy cup seals in bulk and you seem capable at making your own bits so it's deffo worth a play. just thought it might help

[gamer565]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3044610

this might interest you necro, by the sounds of things tis allowing more air flow in, might work with a lighter ram thats not opening the popper enough... erego workign witha lower LPR. just a thought, but you might be sending out rams with poppets soon :P im sure you can buy cup seals in bulk and you seem capable at making your own bits so it's deffo worth a play. just thought it might help

all that thread show is how to make a LP poppet without actually buying one.

and he has already said that he has done testing with a LP poppet.

[necrolyte]

gamer is correct. Basically all that they did was extend the length of the HP poppet, which created a LP poppet, without spending the money :) Same results, same effect as having a LP poppet.

[DFSniper]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3044610

this might interest you necro, by the sounds of things tis allowing more air flow in, might work with a lighter ram thats not opening the popper enough... erego workign witha lower LPR. just a thought, but you might be sending out rams with poppets soon :P im sure you can buy cup seals in bulk and you seem capable at making your own bits so it's deffo worth a play. just thought it might help

yep. we were actually talking about that about 3-4 days before that thread popped up on pbn.

[Depth]

was thinking thou, would it work to lengthen the LP poppet to make an ultra LP and see if that has any effect on your ram? just a thought.

[DFSniper]

the ram has already been extended to its max to compensate for the lack of length of the poppet.

[necrolyte]

We're playing with different methods to get the max performance out of the Vice/Protege right now. I've changed the design about 10 times so far!

[Daigz525]

I assume that you have also tried it with the standard poppet also correct?

[necrolyte]

Yep, and it honestly works better with the LP poppet.

[Mora]

i want a vice necroram...(sobs histerically)

[necrolyte]

I'm still trying to get the LP down to around 70 psi. I may release some prototypes and see what people think about the LP being at 80 psi just to get some feedback.

[Six_Shooter]

You know I'm in for testing. ;)

[Mora]

Oh yes!!

[Redbeard75]

UWL tournament this weekend :) I carry a case on my pack and shoot every ball.. Would be happy to put about 4 cases through a prototype this weekend :)

[Evil Rocky]

I have 2 practices a week (X-ball sunday practice & drills Thursday) One in wisconsin and the other in our personal back yard airball field. I probably put about 4-5 cases a week. If you need anyone which I doubt, just send me a PM. I have done testing for couple different companies/places and wrote reviews on them. from hoppers to lubes. I have a personal field chrono and LPR tester for me to run numbers for you on efficiancy and consistancy.

But either way I am excited to see this available soon!

[Mora]

i will gladly take one off your hands sir

[Seb_RH]

i just want it to be released! lol

[Mora]

yea same here

[necrolyte]

I may have some prototypes of the current one made and send them out to testers to get other people's opinions on running the slightly higher LP.

I've already got testers picked out, so please don't PM me for being a tester :D

[Six_Shooter]

I've already got testers picked out, so please don't PM me for being a tester :D

Pm'd.

:P :D

[Mora]

what did you say the LPR was, 80 right? stock is 75, so it shouldnt be much of a difference

[Six_Shooter]

Stock LPR pressure is 70. The 10 PSIG difference to me is not a concern, but some people do have issue with it.

[Mora]

What would happen if you ran it at a really low pressure, say like 50-ish? I know you would lose efficiency, but would it cycle properly, you'd have to turn up the dwell and HPR right

[necrolyte]

It will not cycle that low.

[Depth]

any news on the gen 5 rams?

[Mora]

roar, i desire...

[necrolyte]

Beta rams are being produced right now. I should have them in my hands this week or early next week I hope. These will go out to testers.

[Daigz525]

Woooooooooooo hoooooooooooo

[SlvrDragon50]

Woo hooO!

Sadly... im broke :( Time to sell stuff again!

[Depth]

what did u get the LPR/dwell down to?

[necrolyte]

Lpr is 75 to 80, dwell is still at 3.

I'm going to see what the testers think with the lpr being 10 high.

[Six_Shooter]

Necro, can you fore see any issues running at 4ms dwell? That's the lowest the two boards I have will go to (both are Frenzy 3.0s) The one in my first protege, and the one you sent me both go to 4ms. The other Frenzy 3.0 I have I need to send in for flashing, since it only has selectable dwell between 8 and 10 ms.

Currently, at 4ms with the stock ram I get a quasi-simulate mode, where the markers will only half cycle.

Higher dwell, should just mean consistancy is better, correct? Maybe a touch less efficiancy over running at 3ms.

[necrolyte]

I tested with the vice earlier and I see or hear no difference at 4 ms dwell so it should be fine.

[Mora]

is there any major loss of effinciency with 4 ms; the empire rf chip wont respond with 3, only 4, go figure

[necrolyte]

Not that I could notice. :D

[Mora]

disregard that, picked up a pinokio at D-day, and it is the best hopper i have ever used...time to sell the prophecy! so 3 ms should be just fine:cool:

[Ollieleet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Wnfk6w_es&feature=channel_page

New video

[Daigz525]

YES! That was a good video! I'm really looking forward to getting one of these and putting it through it's paces!!

[Ollieleet]

Thanks.

[poloboy821]

what is wrong with the gun? it sounded really sputtery.......

[Ollieleet]

video was slightly sped up, messed with the sound signature.

[poloboy821]

should probably add that as a pop up on the video so people know whats wrong with it..

[Ollieleet]

Yeah, it's on the sidebar.

[poloboy821]

where???

[Ollieleet]

On the side, click more information the sidebar that's what it's called lol.

[poloboy821]

ok well not everybody will click that.... im just trying to make it flame proof for ya thats all

[Ollieleet]

It wasn't uploaded to my youtube account sadly, Necro can add an annotation.

[Six_Shooter]

If someone doesn't click on the "more info" tab, they deserve to make themselves look like a fool, and be flamed for it.

[Ollieleet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6DhpBrvQUI&feature=channel_page

Realtime

[Mora]

alright! i so desire...sigh...

[Fallinher0]

video was slightly sped up, messed with the sound signature.

Why would you do that?

[necrolyte]

The video was right at 12 minutes. To upload it to youtube on my account meant it had to be less than 10 minutes long. Thats the reason the shooting section was sped up to make up the 2 minutes to get it into the time limit that I had.

Sorry for any confusion. Its just something that had to be done.

[Fallinher0]

Ah, just wondering. I wanted to hear how it sounded.

[necrolyte]

Ollie posted up a real time video, and I just linked it from my video as well.

[fivestring]

So Chris whats the update homie-g-funk??

I watched the video. Is that a prototype ram there, realizing I know you had one that you and Ryan were working with.

Oh and side note that trigger will be in the mail tomorrow I have been stupid busy.

Thanks,
nick

[necrolyte]

Yep, this is a prototype ram. I have 'beta' rams being machined now for a few of you to test, and 'YOU' know who you are :)

I figured I'd try it on my new Vice right out of the box and see how it works, since thats what most people will be using. Worked PERFECT.

[fivestring]

Cool, glad the Out of the Box test worked well. Stoked to really see what she will do.

[Lurker27]

what is wrong with the gun? it sounded really sputtery.......

I think that it has something to do with the lighter rams in the gen5 makign a bigger difference in cyclic speed - higher swell settings almost feel overdwelled. A rear QEV would probably be a good idea if there is space in the frame.

Things might be slightly different with necro's rams versus mine, maybe we can source up a QEV that works for both of us?

[necrolyte]

That's not a bad idea. I'll go inside the frame and see if there is an area to use and make it easily accessible.

[Lurker27]

Cool. Let me know what you find and perhaps we can source something, or even get a housing fabricated.

[SlvrDragon50]

Can you shoot it over the chrono Necro?

[Mora]

QEV? that very much tickles my fancy (my fancy is easily tickled)

but i dont think there is enough space in the back for one, and even then , isnt the noid mounted directly to the rear?

also, wouldnt a QEV make the marker louder and/or less efficient?

finally, what about dual QEV's? one in the back and one in the front?

[Lurker27]

I think the negatives are really associated more with a front QEV - that eliminates the damping force in front and really lets the assembly accelerate through the poppet hit. Also, Egos, which I am assuming where you get this idea, run at ridiculously high shifting forces compared to intimidators. LPR 100+, and HPR ~300+ (depending on model, the newer ones are a bit lower).

Since noise is dP/dt, opening the poppet faster with a high pressure is loud.

I'll get out of necro's hair now.

[Mora]

i knew it!!! i always thought that was why egos are louder...

[Daigz525]

I got a really awesome picture from necro today on my phone... I'll let him post it if he wants to, but it's a whole lot of something nice!!

[Ollieleet]

Yeah, I got that picture too :tup:.

[Mora]

i wanna see...

[Six_Shooter]

Starts with "vic" and ends with "tory"?

[Daigz525]

Starts with "vic" and ends with "tory"?

negative, not today, they are still waiting to be shipped I believe.

[Six_Shooter]

:(
:(

[necrolyte]

Nah, Victory will HOPEFULLY be here late this week...again hopefully....

But I did get these incase anyone was wondering

http://www.necropb.com/necrolyte/gen5_prototypes.jpg

[SlvrDragon50]

:O

Do want...

[Six_Shooter]

That makes me happy (in pants). :D

[Ollieleet]

I like how necrorams are curvy.

[Mora]

YESSSSSSSSSS! i have to wash my pants now but seeing that is well worth it.

[Depth]

if you get 265-275 over the crono at about 84-88 PSI on the LRP, what PSI do you need to get it to 280-285?

+ how much are you selling them for?

[necrolyte]

I started out at 280 in my video, and had it drop back down to 270, but I never did check my LPR again during the video to see if my Regs had broken in any and dropped. Should not have to bump it much, maybe 90psi to get to 285 or so.

I plan to do more playing with it this weekend, I'm also hoping to get an LP poppet in it to do more testing with it as well.

Not sure on the price just yet, as the spring mod is different for these and takes a machined part as well. I'm shooting for the $35-40 shipped range, just like the Gen3s.

[Depth]

kk kewl, also, whats it like at high cycles per second?

[fivestring]

I got a really awesome picture from necro today on my phone... I'll let him post it if he wants to, but it's a whole lot of something nice!!

Its not fair he has my number too but didn't send it to me. :D

Good looking rams though Chris.

Later
Nick

[necrolyte]

kk kewl, also, whats it like at high cycles per second?

I've seen no problems with it at high rates of fire. I know we managed to max out the rotor at something like 32-33 bps, and then we maxed out the prophecy at 37-38 bps...

I think it'll even run faster than that honestly, just dont have a hopper that can keep up!

[Mora]

Pinokio sir.

[SlvrDragon50]

Nah. Prophecy is faster than pinokio..

When are you sending out to testers?

[Depth]

impressive!

[necrolyte]

Gotta get all of the spring mod parts machined up, and order in more springs, then we'll be good to go :)

[Mora]

prophecy isnt faster, i own both.

[Ollieleet]

K, they both suck revvy > all.

[Mora]

lols!

[Depth]

sounds kewl, i think i shall take one off your hands when your popping them out! just let me know when there on your site!

[Evil Rocky]

I just got rid of my Ego 7 for another Vice. So I am looking forward to this and hoping they come out soon.

Thanks

[fivestring]

Necrorams oooo yeah (just like the big KoolAid man)

[Depth]

any word on the QEV idea? im kinda interested?

[Daigz525]

Any word on getting these Gen 5 rams out to testers? I'm looking to mow some face with this! (And so is Bob and Matt with BLAST!!!!)

[necrolyte]

Cody, planning to drop a few out in the mail this week. I'll let you know when they head out.

[jLj37592]

think these will be available by July 20th? thats my birthday and i want one! :D

[Evil Rocky]

^^ WORD! I am wanting one for my Vice as well.

[necrolyte]

I doubt the public release will be by then as I'd like to give testers plenty of time to play with them.

[jLj37592]

booooo :(

[necrolyte]

Sorry man, just don't want to let them out too early incase something has to be changed.

[jLj37592]

yeah, i understand. i'm just really excited for this ram! lol

[Six_Shooter]

I am waiting in antici........

[Mora]

ROAR!!! sit and wait, sit and wait...8l

[fivestring]

The best things come to those who wait!

[Daigz525]

no the best things come to those who meet necro for lunch when he is driving through town!!!!

I just got my prototype (and Bob's) and installed it in my vice! Can't wait to get some more air to test this thing out!!!

I'm shipping Bob's out to him tomorrow for him to test!

[SlvrDragon50]

Nice!

I have no money left to buy a necroram though :(

[fivestring]

no the best things come to those who meet necro for lunch when he is driving through town!!!!

I just got my prototype (and Bob's) and installed it in my vice! Can't wait to get some more air to test this thing out!!!

I'm shipping Bob's out to him tomorrow for him to test!

Ahh no fair I was supposed to meet necro for lunch too but could not find an excuse to travel an hour and a half from the office to meet for lunch.....dang dang dang.

Get some info up quick Daig.

later
Nick

PS, Chris there may be a chance that I'm going to move an hour from Atomic. There is going to be a job in Greenwood that is right up my alley and the wife and kid are on board for the move. I'll just have to see how things turn out. I'll keep you posted on that.

-nick

[necrolyte]

Sweet! Let me know. I was going to call you on the way back through, but we didnt' leave Deltona until 4pm, and we got in around 10pm...so it would've been late!

[fivestring]

Well glad you had a good trip then. I'll be in touch as I know more.

lates
Nick

[PO-BOY]

any word on the new ram for gen 5?

[fivestring]

I believe prototype rams are w/ testers at this time. The testers will run them through the paces.

[Daigz525]

I just installed my prototype in my vice last night. I shot a few balls with it, I need to get more paint and air then I can really test it out!

[PO-BOY]

i can test one out.......:D:eek:

[Daigz525]

I'm actually really impressed with it so far, I can deal with the LPR being a little on the high end, it really did reduce 90% of the kick of my vice. My vice shoots a lot more like a marq now

[tjs0349]

Do you have the LP poppet in your vice?

[necrolyte]

They work with the HP or LP poppet now.

[Daigz525]

I have the stock poppet

[tjs0349]

They work with the HP or LP poppet now.

That's not why I was asking :-) I purchased the LP poppet when I bought my Vice and put it in right away. I've never shot a Vice without it. I've been told that with the LP poppet kick is reduced. I was trying to guage if Diagz's setup was similar to mine and I could expect the same type of results.

If it's true that the LP poppet reduces kick, I would assume I wouldn't notice as much of a reduction with the Necroram as he is since he doesn't have the poppet.

To be honest I would say my Vice has hardly any kick. I'm very interested to see if the Necroram will yield noticable results like it does with other generations.

[SpyderMan723]

the LP poppet reduces kick and provides a "smoother" shot, but robs air efficiency, i just realized this the other day. I'm sticking with my stock poppet lol

[Mora]

i thought i heard that it works better with the lp poppit.

[tjs0349]

the LP poppet reduces kick and provides a "smoother" shot, but robs air efficiency, i just realized this the other day. I'm sticking with my stock poppet lol

You don't loose much... When you can get over a case from a 68/4500 loosing a little efficiency isn't that big of a deal... With the LP poppet, my gun is still way more efficient than just about every other gun out there!

[Mattyk_p8b]

man whens this ram gonna come out!!! If you wait to much longer to release it bob long will have a new timmy out lol!

[Mora]

sigh...

[Daigz525]

I'll be playing this weekend and will post up results about my prototype but it shoots AWESOME in my backyard!

The kick is really reduced (from the stock poppet) with the necroram. It shoots a lot like my marq now which has virtually zero kick or barrel rise.

[fossilhead]

Keep a rough eye on efficiency #'s if you can please :)

That's my main interest.

[bronze]

have some patients. it took time to get the gen 3 rams out. This one is still in the prototype stages.

[SpyderMan723]

Patience* ;)

[fossilhead]

Not being impatient. Just asking Daigz525 a favor :)

[bronze]

Patience* ;)


thanks:P

[vbonilla]

I'm new to IntimidatorOwners.com, thanks to Daigz525. I want numbers, especially with the LP Poppet.

[Mora]

i second that :) lp poppit...wasnt it more efficient with it or was i mistaken?

[Depth]

it lowers the operating pressure (the HPR). not designed to lower the LPR, and it makes it less efficient

[Mora]

i meant with the necro ram. stock yea it hurts efficiency but i thought it worked better with the necro ram...

[Six_Shooter]

....pation

What's this?
http://domestic.3400z24.com/sixshooter/Misc/Paint%20Ball/NecroRam/NRam01.jpg

Oh... a Gen5 NecroRam...
http://domestic.3400z24.com/sixshooter/Misc/Paint%20Ball/NecroRam/NRam02.jpg

Comparison to stock parts.
http://domestic.3400z24.com/sixshooter/Misc/Paint%20Ball/NecroRam/NRam03.jpg

I got a chance to use it today.

My Protege settings were as follows:
LPR: 75 PSI
HPR: ?? (Haven't checked yet)
Dwell: 5
FPS: highest I had was 255 FPS, feild speed was 260, and didn't want to push too close to the limit.
Other: HP poppet, Halo, Invert Nightstick, PE 68/4500.

I tried a dwell of 4, since that was the lowest my board will go. I couldn't get my FPS above 190 or so. I suspect having my LPR set at 75 might have something to do with this, I plan to raise it to 85, and test again. I hadn't played in two weeks so I just wanted to get out and play.

Kick is reduced quite a bit, I still get a little barrel rise at high rates of fire, but not like I'm used to with the stock ram.

Efficiancy appears to be increased already. Unfortunatly I didn't start with a fresh box of paint, but would say that I got very close to a case of paint from a 68 ci 3000 PSI fill. I used up what I had left over from prevuous outings, which was over 3/4s of a case and then a couple pods from the next case.

One thing I have noticed is that because of the very light weight of the NecroRam, it can't be removed from the marker in the same way as the stock ram, you know, remove cap and then smack the back of the ram sleeve/marker to dislodge the ram. I used an allen key (it was handy) to give a slight nudge through the bolt pin slot. I'll gladly take this "inconvienience", with the other benefits. :D

I also plan to test with an LP poppet, since my back-up Protege has the LP poppet installed.

So far I like what I'm seeing. Just need a little more time to test and play with settings to find what works best for me.

Thanks Necro! :tup:

[Mora]

what's a necro ram?

thats pretty awesome. but then again it was 255... either way its awesome.

[necrolyte]

Knock your LP up some to around 85 and you shouldnt have any issues getting it up to speed.

[kingjakim]

I am REALLY looking forward to getting one of these for my vice. I have been watching this ever since i heard about it since getting my vice, which is actually my first timmy, and i am loving it more than my dm7,shocker,ego, and everything else. it is amazing that stock, i can almost get a case with a 68/45, and then reading on that guys review, with the necroram he almost got a case with a 68/3000!! thats amazing work, and extreme props to you for creating this.i have been telling everyone about this who hasnt heard about it yet when i see someone with a vice or protege. any possible way i'd be able to help test it out or preorder when customer release is ready? :)

[Daigz525]

I think that all of the prototypes are out... but they are SICK! I'll tell you that much!

Keep your eyes open, after we get some more information together I'm sure that Necro will be setting up pre-order!

[Depth]

hay, has been 4 days since a post and 13 days since a review. is there anymore info to come?

[fivestring]

Testing is still underway.

[BigRed76]

hay, has been 4 days since a post and 13 days since a review. is there anymore info to come?

When it's out, I will personally PM you to let you know. We are running it through the gauntlet to ensure that it works well consistently, and is a reliable product.

[Depth]

thats kewl, im not poking holes, just wanted to know if anyone had found the time to abuse it with a 4k5 fill over a crono!

[Six_Shooter]

I played with mine some today...

Had to go back to stock ram, not sure what was going on there. I had wicked FSDO with the stock ram, because I forgot to raise the dwell back to stock, full cycling with stock ram at 5ms?!!

I think I might have an issue with my LPR though, since I wasn't able to get above 85 PSIG, not that I wanted to run higher than that, but the screw is bottomed out at 85 PSIG.

So more testing to do.

[kingjakim]

sign me up for preorder to recieve one the day they are available. i want one bad

[Mora]

yea lol same here.

[BrainEmindless]

I'd love to try one in my vice!

[Depth]

hay, any news on the progress of this project by either necro or the testers? been a while now

[Mora]

what I'M wondering is...
what does it work better with? lp or hp poppit?
i mean efficiency wise
and i want one now! haha

[masterbob]

i would say stock poppet

[gamer565]

what I'M wondering is...
what does it work better with? lp or hp poppit?
i mean efficiency wise
and i want one now! haha

I was talked about towards the beginning of the thread
Yep, and it honestly works better with the LP poppet.

[xArtofRuinx]

I will definitely buy one of these...

[Depth]

ok, no offence but the testers have had the ram a while now, we got a good review back in march about it (including pictures and all) and have had nothing with any substance since. you cant tell me the testers haven't played paintball in 6 months... really wanting a full-on review for this!

[Six_Shooter]

ok, no offence but the testers have had the ram a while now, we got a good review back in march about it (including pictures and all) and have had nothing with any substance since. you cant tell me the testers haven't played paintball in 6 months... really wanting a full-on review for this!


I can only answer for myself on this....

I wish I had some news, one way or another on my impressions of the Necroram.

I have had some issues, that are not NecroRam related, but in my case LPR related. This means I can use my stock ram, but not my NecroRam, and until I figure out exactly what is going on I can't test the NecroRam with any fairness to the NecroRam.

I will say this though, when I was able to set up the NecroRam, my Protege was the most consistant it has EVER been, within a few FPS. The kick was also reduced.

Once I figure out my LPR issues, I will be back to more testing with the NecroRam. :)