New marker idea???

[wesamiss]

Howdy,

I have been in paintball for a few years now. And I love grass roots markers such as cockers, intimidators, and spyders.
I am gathering parts for a spimmy. Anyways, I got to thinking about the MQ valve for the cockers.

Anyways, so here is my idea....

Take a stacked tube body

Top tube
-bolt
-self cleaning eyes (brake beam)
-dual detents.

Bottem tube
-LPR (in the same spot as intimidator)
-MQ valve
-ram (similar to intimidator)

But the hoses will be swaped to keep the bolt in the closed position. Bolt will be enclosed like the species intimidator. On pull of the trigger, valve will open and milliseconds after that the bolt will cycle to put another ball in chamber.


So its a closed bolt stacked tube marker similar to a intimidator.

This is just an idea. I am not sure if anyone has done it yet, and dont care.

Also I know that closed bolt markers are not any better then open bolt markers. But its something new and would be interesting to see.


What do yall think?

[GOD]

You can't fit an MQ and a ram in the lower tube. It's one or the other.

Also, cocker valves are MUCH smaller than what you're accustom to the MQ included.

It's a cool idea but you're not going to be able to make it work without making damn near every part yourself including the valve.

[toolittletoolate]

Why not just get a Cocker? All in all I see no point in making it. To me just because it's never been done doesn't mean its a good idea, and should be done. All I can say is, good luck on it if you do decide to take up such an endeavor.

[wesamiss]

Just an IDEA guys. If I had money to do this I would.

GOD you are right it wouldnt be easy.

Why not just get a cocker? Well, this would be much lighter then a cocker and guess it would be more simple? Think about it with the MQ valve a cocker is just a very complicated intimidator ram system without the valve.

Just something different... Maybe if i did do this i could use a cocker ram mounted in the body with a bolt slot. HUMMMM this maybe easier then you guys think.

[GOD]

You could fit a ram in the upper tube behind the bolt and have the MQ in the lower tube, I've considered doing this for a while but never felt like destroying a body to try it.

You would have to use a cocker body, the MQ wont work with anything else except possibly an AKA gun. I've heard of MQ'd vikings but don't know what that entailed.

[wesamiss]

well.... this is what i was thinking.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk85/WESamiss/Markerdesign.jpg

[wesamiss]

Obviously I would need a way to secure everything in there.

GOD your idea is great.

Anyone who has shot a marker that has been MQ'ed would know why anyone would want to put that valve in anything. So gosh darn smooth and quite.

[wesamiss]

This what your thinking of GOD?

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk85/WESamiss/Markerdesign2.jpg

[GOD]

Have you ever held an MQ or installed one? With your valve placement I highly doubt that you have. They take up damn near the entire lower tube and your positioning is very off.

Your first rendering of your idea will not work, there is NO room in the lower tube to house the ram let alone allow it a full stroke behind an MQ valve.

Your second is very similar to the concept I've been kicking around however the valve sizing, placement and hose routing are lacking at best.


I'm doing my best to not sound like a dick yet still emphasize the points that need it.
Don't get too offended by anything I have said/am going to say.

[GOD]

Here's a more accurate representation of what you're trying to accomplish:
*Note the valve retaining screw position (actual position) and the valve around it*

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/royalkingsmitus/rdm/buttsack.jpg

Both the upper and lower tubes would need to be threaded (female.) The ram in the upper needs something to hold it in place while it moves the bolt. The MQ solenoid needs pressure from the rear to seal against the rear valve face.

(The sketch of the MQ is based on the one I had over a year ago, it's not 100% accurate but pretty damn close, I couldn't remember where the spring is supposed to go.)

[LunchboxMischke]

i like pie

[wesamiss]

Ok, yeah you are right about the MQ valve. I have only held one and shot one a while ago. Back when turtle cockers where the beesknees. I can fab a sleeve to fit them in a body. Same thing for the ram. Just i cant think of a way to hold it in the sleeve. JB weld would be soo serious, and cause Im a red neck thats the only thing that comes to mind.

So your saying it would be best to use a cocker body.

If you were to use a cocker body the only think you would need to fab would be a sleeve to hold the ram in place in the top tube. What about solenoid, if you were to use an eblade. The valve has a spacer, would you be about to mill some of the back of the body off and place the solenoid in that spot? also what about the lpr? Guess just fab a male to female threaded for the reg and throw the lpr hose to the side?

[wesamiss]

So I have done a bit of research... found out that Macdev had a cocker with a block screw that threaded the lpr right on to it. Soo, I was thinking use a cocker body, the sonic block screw, the valve, 2k2/2k5 timmy frame w/ internals, cocker ram threaded on a bolt, with a little bit of dense wood (to hold ram in place in top tube), and a frew mods to the body for the frame and you should have a nice spocker?

Spocker... thats what i should call it.

I really hope this all makes sense to yall cause shock top has gotten to me. They are so damn flavorful. :D

[GOD]

So I have done a bit of research... found out that Macdev had a cocker with a block screw that threaded the lpr right on to it. You sure you're not thinking of System X? Macdev may have but SysX did for sure. Soo, I was thinking use a cocker body, the sonic block screw, the valve, 2k2/2k5 timmy frame w/ internals, cocker ram threaded on a bolt, with a little bit of dense wood (to hold ram in place in top tube) Don't use wood, aluminum sleeve milled to hold it and a setscrew through the top of the body to hold that in place, and a frew mods to the body for the frame and you should have a nice spocker?

Spocker... thats what i should call it.
No you shouldn't. That name is already taken, it refers to a Spyder that has been converted to closed bolt VIA cocker parts.

I really hope this all makes sense to yall cause shock top has gotten to me. They are so damn flavorful. :D
It makes sense, now go dot it.

[excessiveego]

Here's a more accurate representation of what you're trying to accomplish:
*Note the valve retaining screw position (actual position) and the valve around it*

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c35/royalkingsmitus/rdm/buttsack.jpg

Both the upper and lower tubes would need to be threaded (female.) The ram in the upper needs something to hold it in place while it moves the bolt. The MQ solenoid needs pressure from the rear to seal against the rear valve face.

(The sketch of the MQ is based on the one I had over a year ago, it's not 100% accurate but pretty damn close, I couldn't remember where the spring is supposed to go.)

and what you have there is essentially a classic shocker ;) lol

[GOD]

and what you have there is essentially a classic shocker ;) lol

I've never gotten my hands on a Shocker Sport, there's a mint body at the shop though but that doesn't really teach me much.

[oldironmudder]

and what you have there is essentially a classic shocker ;) lol

Your right.

The valve is different being he plans the use a MQ2 but same basic layout.

Oh ya, I think GOD said a 'Cocker MQ2 would not fit. Well your right, it would fall through the lower bore but the company that made/makes the MQs also made a spacer to fit 11/16" bores. Thats why there is a few MQ'd Excals running around.

[wesamiss]

and what you have there is essentially a classic shocker ;) lol

Yeah but its super small compared to the shoe box that it was.

Yeah, I was drunk. Spocker ( i knew i heard that name before)

Just a few name ideas...lol
intimicocker
the new old school shocker
Cant think of anymore.

Also, what does dot it mean?

Yes, Macdev did make a front block screw for the cocker that would incorporate the lpr. System X one may be a lot easier to get a hold of. Thank you brotha. I am actually going to try this with a cocker body first. Means how the are only 50 bucks new and i have a few extra parts. Then need to get a MQ valve.

[wesamiss]

Parts needed list...

-Cocker body
-MQ valve
-cocker style ram (with QEVs if desired)
-2k5 or 2k2 intimidator frame w/ internals (2k5 preferred)
-E2 Board
-Bolt (could probably use an angel one due to its tiny mass)
-HPR adaptor for the body (normally comes with the body)
-System X cocker front block screw
-Cocker LPR
-Cocker hose

Eventually I would like to get a spyder body (or custom stacked tube body cause I dont know a intimidator body that encloses the bolt but isnt crappy enough to mod like that. Yes species) Something that would take a intimidator front block.

[oldironmudder]

Parts needed list...

-Cocker body
-cocker style ram (with QEVs if desired)
-2k5 or 2k2 intimidator frame w/ internals (2k5 preferred)
-HPR adaptor for the body (normally comes with the body)
-Cocker LPR
-Cocker hose



For Sale: '98 RF Cocker (http://www.intimidatorowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=50702#post50702)

+

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww182/oldironmudderssale/clamshell/clamshell001.jpg

?

[wesamiss]

Like donate them?

[oldironmudder]

Like donate them?

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o54/drunknmudder77/810928-lmao_super.jpg

I will sell or trade the stuff i have.

[wesamiss]

I was goign to say, no thank you. lol

anyways... i just put the list up for anyone else who wants to try this.

EDIT:
Been doing some research... MQ valves are still sold with the 11/16 valve body. SO... time to start getting parts.
too bad i just baught a 05 prostock cocker. no more moneys for a few.

[GOD]

You should turn the PS into a pump and give it to me. I've been trying to get one for a good long time.

[wesamiss]

ebay FTW GOD. EBAY!!! I will sell it to you if you want it... 160, comes with box, manual, cd, and hex keys.

Anyways, I also just got a Spyder ACS Pilot for my spimmy build, and I am getting an 2k2 after christmas from a friend. Well, this has come up, I really want to do this now. UGH! I have no choice but to get rid of the wife so i can do all these things.

Still waiting on Mrouks to send the EPBS so i can get my alias to work. Also have to jb weld the body puncture from frame screw on the body.

lol

Anyways, when I go on vacation to home I am going to stop by my old shop and pick up as many parts as i can for this build.

Also, the system x front block kit has the screw to use the lpr if you wanted to use a cocker body, but due to the fact that the MQ2 valve is sold in the 11/16 size its just a matter of picking a body that is stacked tube and has a enclosed bolt. Im thinking about a spyder body.

[battlechaser]

i like pie

I also enjoy pie.

[excessiveego]

Yeah but its super small compared to the shoe box that it was.

Yeah, I was drunk. Spocker ( i knew i heard that name before)

Just a few name ideas...lol
intimicocker
the new old school shocker
Cant think of anymore.

Also, what does dot it mean?

Yes, Macdev did make a front block screw for the cocker that would incorporate the lpr. System X one may be a lot easier to get a hold of. Thank you brotha. I am actually going to try this with a cocker body first. Means how the are only 50 bucks new and i have a few extra parts. Then need to get a MQ valve.

it would be hard to make it too much smaller because the ram NEEDS to be a certain length to let the bolt have the right stroke

[Diablo3585]

i like pie

I think you'll find that the universe pretty much covers everything.

[wesamiss]

soo...

I think i am going to start off with a 2k2 as a base, change the body out for a spyder body with a back cap. get some wood, make a sleeve for a ram and align everything. Have a friend make some aluminum sleeve from my wood prototype.


I just need to get a bunch of 2k2 parts if not a whole marker for cheap. real cheap.

[lsongj721]

Ya GOD, your drawing is essentially a shocker sport.

The valve system is basically a huge, primative MQ valve lol.


But ya, your idea isnt new. I thought of something very simple, before i had an MQ in my hands lol.

Like i had a very short, low force ram that hit the rear of the MQ valve (where an electronic switch was)

Except at the time i was thinkin how they could make the Fusion better lol.
I deleted the picture about 3 hours ago (cleaning out all my old and useless pictures/ vids/ and programs.

[wesamiss]

Isnt the MQ valve completely differnt then the shocker sport valve? smartparts would have sued by now if it was in anyway close to shocker.

[GOD]

Isnt the MQ valve completely differnt then the shocker sport valve? smartparts would have sued by now if it was in anyway close to shocker.

I'm looking into it as I was thinking the exact same thing.

[excessiveego]

Ya GOD, your drawing is essentially a shocker sport.

The valve system is basically a huge, primative MQ valve lol.


But ya, your idea isnt new. I thought of something very simple, before i had an MQ in my hands lol.

Like i had a very short, low force ram that hit the rear of the MQ valve (where an electronic switch was)

Except at the time i was thinkin how they could make the Fusion better lol.
I deleted the picture about 3 hours ago (cleaning out all my old and useless pictures/ vids/ and programs.
ive toyed with the idea... best thing ive come up with has already been done and that is a ram off of the back of the gun (people have modified cockers to function like that)
Isnt the MQ valve completely differnt then the shocker sport valve? smartparts would have sued by now if it was in anyway close to shocker.

yes and no... same principal, different design

[wesamiss]

This would actually feel and look like a timmy but function like a cocker.

I am going to try this shortly, got to save a few parts and money til i can.
My brand new in bow 05 prostock cocker may be up for sale and I have not even shot it yet. UGH!!!

[lsongj721]

I'm looking into it as I was thinking the exact same thing.
Well, i owned both and held both in my hands...and it functions with the same basic idea.

Lol i can see the difference in my mind. But its kinda hard to explain if that makes any sense.

Illt ry to draw it out.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii148/lsongj721/MQ.jpg
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii148/lsongj721/Shocker.jpg

As you can see, there are simalarities

[wesamiss]

Shocker sport...
http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/shockersport_v3_7fps.gif

MQ valve...
http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/mq1.gif

best tech website ever... http://zdspb.com/

[GOD]

This would actually feel and look like a timmy...
It wont feel anything like a Timmy. :)

The most accurate way to explain how it feels to shoot an MQ'd gun is "It feels like it shoots before it actually does."

[lsongj721]

best tech website ever... http://zdspb.com/

Im familiar with the site.

But i wanted to draw mine out so i can remove any possibly confusing aspects of the animation (ex. movement)

The goal was to point out the similarities between the MQ valve and the Shocker sport valve mechanism

[wesamiss]

I have shot an mq'd cocker. They are actually really nice. By feel like a timmy I mean in your hands. I am just going to use a cocker eblade board, ram, and solenoid. Put the frame internals in the intimidator frame.

[GOD]

I have shot an mq'd cocker. They are actually really nice. By feel like a timmy I mean in your hands. I am just going to use a cocker eblade board, ram, and solenoid. Put the frame internals in the intimidator frame.

Before you try to go any further trying to make a franken gun you need to get intimately familiar with the parts of each. For example, a cocker solenoid simply will not work because it's manifold mounted. How are you going to fit an eblade board, 9v battery and solenoid in a timmy frame?

You're not thinking things through all the way.

[wesamiss]

yeah its only the housing that has the solenoid in it. if you take it out of the housing then you should be fine. I already have most the parts besides the solenoid, barbs, ram, and timmy lpr. I could use my alias parts but I want a gun to sell, other then my new old cocker.

God you want my cocker? 160 shipped, its LNIB Ill take video and pics when i get home to it. Its waiting for me at my house im on vacation. woot woot.

[toolittletoolate]

I've got a 2k2 LPR I'll sell ya. I have a thread with it in it in the BST section.

[wesamiss]

pm'ed ya. thanks.

EDIT
Yeah, i just took my friends eblade solenoid apart, its really gay cause its not threaded for barbs. So timmy solenoid it is.

[excessiveego]

pm'ed ya. thanks.

EDIT
Yeah, i just took my friends eblade solenoid apart, its really gay cause its not threaded for barbs. So timmy solenoid it is.

yea... thats what everyone was trying to tell you, its manifold mounted ;)

[GOD]

Yeah, i just took my friends eblade solenoid apart, its really gay cause its not threaded for barbs. So timmy solenoid it is.

I figured you would know what manifold mounted meant which is why I said it.

This is a perfect example of why you need to be intimately familiar with each and every individual part before you try to put them all together. Get some face time with everything, get to know them then decide what parts you want to use. :tup:

BTW, I have NO cash for anything. Can't even pay my car insurance...

[wesamiss]

yea... thats what everyone was trying to tell you, its manifold mounted ;)


I believe only one person said anything. :)

BTW, half the time I have been posting in here has been drunk. Leave FTMFW.

[GOD]

I believe only one person said anything. :)

But that one person could count for everyone if he so chose. :D

[wesamiss]

lol

God you are helping quite a bit.

Ok, i know that timmy barbs and cocker barbs are different. If I have high flow timmy barbs and I use the timmy noid and front block the ram would have the smaller barbs. The barbs I have for cockers are really small and very old.

What would you do? I have a few ideas on how to keep the larger hose on the smaller barbs.

[excessiveego]

lol

God you are helping quite a bit.

Ok, i know that timmy barbs and cocker barbs are different. If I have high flow timmy barbs and I use the timmy noid and front block the ram would have the smaller barbs. The barbs I have for cockers are really small and very old.

What would you do? I have a few ideas on how to keep the larger hose on the smaller barbs.

the smaller cocker hose CAN be forced over the larger barbs... a good trick is to warm up the hose in your mouth (or hot water) first

AND, there are a few ram manufacturers that thread their rams in the larger thread, the barb is still the same size but the threading could accommodate a larger barb.

[GOD]

I've never had high flow hose slip off a regular barb. Some cocker barbs are the same thread as timmy barbs, the ones that aren't are 10-32 threaded.

[wesamiss]

A trick I used to use would be take a small needle nose and ring out the hose and stretch it nice and good. Never thought about warming it up. HA

[LunchboxMischke]

this thread is still alive wow

[Ollieleet]

It wasn't until you posted.

[GOD]

It wasn't until you posted.
I know. What a douche right?

[wesamiss]

wow.... there is an update on this. I have someone producing the bolt for me. The bolt system is going to be just like the Aedes marker. Using a mq2 valve and a spyder body. i will have my own Aedes. I decided to drop my regular idea of using a cocker ram and solenoid.

[wesamiss]

I know. What a douche right?

LMFAO I was thinking the samething and i didnt want to be the one to post it and get in trouble.

[GOD]

LMFAO I was thinking the samething and i didnt want to be the one to post it and get in trouble.

Good thing you didn't. It's acceptable coming from me because every one knows it's all in good fun and there's a special place in my heart for the OGs.
Not as acceptable from you. :P

[wesamiss]

Ugh I hate being a little peasant amongst the other people in the forums. :(