decisions, decisions, decisions .....

[Slimpikins976]

Ok guys I need some serious help here.:rolleyes:
I finally got some long awaited loot coming to me and i need to decide on a new gun....:confused:
I have about a grand to Spend and I need to know which gun honestly to go with. I have shoot a lot of older Timmies and had several project guns but I want a gen 4 or newer gun.
Problem is I have not shoot a Mark 6 or 7, or a Mummy or a Rapper or Closer, ect ...or The Vice ( but did shoot a protege at cup) , I know a lot has to do with person preference but I sadly am not around anywhere where I can try these guns out.
I need some serious help though on selections with Pros and cons as far as upgrades, fix ability ( techin' ) , and open vs close bolt for these high end guns. AND HOW WELL they shoot Brittle or tourney PAINT !!!
I can do almost anything with a Gen two threw four Timmy and have helped several people fix, troubleshoot, and upgrade their markers.
So give me a heads up I got a few weeks before I need to have this Bad boy.... Thanks in advance for any posts guys I will take it all into serious thought.

[b-nizzle]

i know what you mean buddy.... here's the deal i shoot both 06 and a 08 vice... my 06 screams but the vice is really small and compact... it goes down to personal preference... if you want you can get a pillow bolt for the 06 and it allows it to shoot paint wonderfully... figure out if you want to feel in your hands.. if you want a thin like dm feel... go gen 5 timmy's... if you still like the 45 feel of your gen 2 and 3's do gen 4's... that's just my opinion... i own gen 3 and up guns so... it all up to you bud :cheers:

[Squirlly]

WARNING POST CONTAINS A PERSONAL RANT as well as advice....

This is one of the things that perplex me about the paintball world. The "need" to upgrade your gear. Don't get me wrong I got my Alias for $300 becasue the guy just felt he had to upgrade!

Why do you feel you want a "new" marker. Are you not happy with your current marker? If your not happy with it why not? I mean with all the BPS and Ramping caps along with the FPS limits and Ion or an Ego there's no difference to me----on the field. Maintance and reailability is the only differences to me. The Lower the maintance and the lower the rate of "issues" is my ONLY concideration. I can swap triggers if I don't like the trigger, I can upgrade the internals if the air effecency isn't what I want (ION). I know a guy that has a very very upped Ion that people that own Shockers, Egos and Proto markers say it's upped so much it shoots better than their gear, and I bet he as less $$ in that Ion than a STOCK new shocker.

-If your just bored with it why not go for a custom re-anno?
-Are you not happy with performance? You mention how it handles very brittle paint. If your current marker is hard on paint look into upgrades that allow you to work at lower pressures, the lower the psi in the LPR the better on paint I have noticed (and I'm the Head Ref at a field so I've seen ALOT of markers and talked to ALOT of ballers)

Ok now my rant is over and if you still want new gear and I DO understand that sometimes you just need new gear. Are you wanting to stay in the Bob Long family or any gear? If you want to stay "In the family" I'd say I saw a "Mummy" conversion kit on ebay the other day that converts "your Marq 6 or 7, Rapper or Closer" to a Mummy so they all must have the same or very similar internals. If you want a mummy below is a buy it now on ebay for $595 plus ship

SUPER CHEAP Mummy on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bob-Long-Hybrid-Mummy-Marq-series-paintball-gun_W0QQitemZ270207178845QQihZ017QQcategoryZ140123 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

If your open to all makes and are worried about not breaking super brittle paint then yes CLOSED BOLT Autocockers are your next marker. The closed bolt system is the best thing on paint I have ever seen. So if your ONLY issue is I'm going to shoot the most brittle paint in the world then an electronic (shudders) electronic WGP autocoker (Immitators are just not the same, even Palmers don't do electro like Worr)

If you are concerend with weight then workout more OR look at Planet Eclipse EGOS they are LIGHT and the reason I now own a Timmy since my Timmy's pervious owner caught the EGO bug.

Hope I helped and if I didn't just realize I'm a clown (No really makeup and all) and blow off this post.

-Tim

[Slimpikins976]

nice rant and good info, I have my upped 05 Alias and love it, but it was 45 degree's last weekend and I broke and chopped every paintball that went into my gun.
No fun for me and the rest of my team mates who shoot ego's and Dm's had no problems.
We always rip on each others guns constantly... Ego's are Loud as hell, ect, yada, yada But as far as gun problem I clean and maintain mine and aside from having to swap a few O-Rings I have had little to no problems with my Timmies EXCEPT Paint.....
I love the bob family but in cooler weather they chop, I have heard this from tons of people. March starts the GFOA ( Georgia field owners association ) tourney's and I plan on playing quite a bit. My concern is I know the shells on tourney paint are weaker and breaks easy like it should, as well as marks better.
I just do not want to head out onto the field and let down my teammates due to my favorite gun chopping the paint. I had planned on getting a Vice for a while but have thrown it around because I have not had a chance to shoot one yet. I hear they are great and are loads more efficient and light as hell. I know it all comes down to picking a gun and sticking with it, and I am ready to move to the next generation of Timmies.
I know like I said gen 2 threw 4's inside and out, and want to take it to the next level. As far as maintenance and performance I was just looking for a point in the right direction in selecting a new beast( which I am at a loss at choosing). I read a lot but have not seen to many post on this site for mark/mummy/ Closer/ect reviews. And the Last thing I want to do is get on YouTube and make an " Informed decision" from some idiots pod cast. I wanted to know if mabey I should try a closed bolt system, heard they are better efficiency, and not as loud.
I love the way My alias shoots, I'm just ready to move to another gun...
And Squirlly Awesome post made me think a bit !!!!

[Megatron]

Squirlly, you are a F'n nut.....(bad joke)
go with the vice slim.....YOU KNOW you wont be happy with anything else, so bite the proverbial paintball and get one......are you keeping your alias?

[Squirlly]

Squirlly, you are a F'n nut.....(

Only 49 posts in I think that's a recond you figured out what takes others 2 or 3 times longer.... after all you are what you eat :cool:

-Tim

[Megatron]

Only 49 posts in I think that's a recond you figured out what takes others 2 or 3 times longer....
no squirly, i figured that out after i saw the graphics on your alias......by the way, my girlfriend says all i eat is crap, does that make me a turd?:confused:

[MVS1]

Just hopped on-board since I finally got around to picking up a ripper 3 and know it's best to go to the dedicated forums for the best advice...
with that said, and don't take this as me waving someone elses banner in front of the Hometeam, but if you are considering other markers, now through Sunday, 10 Feb, Bob Moon (one of the best Angel Master Tech's out there) is selling all his remaining Angel One Rage editions (w/Love/Hate tat's) for $550. That's a crazy deal on a BNIB A1, let alone a Rage, and the backing Bob put's behind everyone of his markers. If your interested check out, www.fixmyangel.com.
AND AGAIN, I'm not posting this to push Angel products just throwing it out there for your consideration.

[fprandy]

With some tournaments capping the rate of fire at 13 or less, speed is much less of a factor. That kind of takes the advantage away from Ego. :tdown:

A well tuned Timmy, hard to beat, but you already have those. :tup:

Marq, Closer, Rapper, Vice, Protege fall in the above class. :tup:

Shockers, they are great project guns. You can fix them almost daily, with a few exceptions. :eek:

In this neighborhood, (not the best) for popularity it used to be the Ego 7. Funny thing happened. The Dye DM's. Funny for the guys who bought one, not funny for the ego owners getting shot out.

Don't get me wrong, Timmys are great guns. Got two. Ego 7, have that. DM4, got that, DM7, got that. So does my son. Four players on his team went out and got theirs. They traded their Egos. One reason. Accuracy.

My Ego is up for sale, not my DM's or my Timmys.

Maintainence? More than Timmy. Lube the bolt lightly with Slick Honey. o-rings, are a pain in the rear. Support? Great with Dye and MatrixOwners.net Just as good as BLAST and IOG

Stock boards, not the best by far. Virtue works good, Tadao works better. Trigger, replace with Critical trigger.

Air: Dye has come a long way with efficiency, but not all the way. My son gets 7 pods and a hopper out of a DM7 with a 68/45 shooting 300+ fps. (cheats) The field we play at never gives us much more than a 3500 psi fill, so this is something to consider if you're a back player.

It comes down to this, try out different guns, see which one fits your hand and style of play best.


Then go out and shoot people.

Best wishes,


Randy


If I were buying today, it would be a tough choice between an Ironman DM7, Protege, or Vice. All personal choice.

[Daigz525]

So i got a Protege at the Cup last year and I love it. For the $500 it is a great deal. Sure, you could spend the extra $200 and get the Vice, which does come with an upped board, pillow bolt, better feedneck, ASA and 3D milling. But if you don't like the 3D milling the Protege is the obvious choice.

I upped my Protege a little bit, new feedneck, ASA, barrel, but to tell you the truth, aside from having easy adjustability on the board, my protege and my teammates vice shoot exactly the same. Actually as far as accuracy and consistancy through a chrono my protege is better (accuracy is the barrel, i have a macdev matchstik which suprised me and everyone else with how tight it is).

Both of these guns are small and thin. It's a different feel and if you haven't ever held one you'll be suprised the first time you shoot it.

If you really can't find anywhere to try one of these out you are in a pretty tough spot as you have to go on what people say...

I can tell you that 3 people on my team bought the new DM8, 1 has the M8, 1 has the vice, 2 have egos and 1 has DP F8, and I have a protege. Out of all those guns, the protege and the vice have the least issues. My protege has less problems than the vice because I clean it after every practice while the vice goes for a week without a cleaning (we practice 3 days a week and all weekend).

As far as the maintenance goes, both the vice and the protege take about 15 minutes for the "daily" maintenance or lubing the basic internals. For the weekly cleaning (taking apart everything and getting ALL the internals) it takes about an hour but if you do it reguarly it will keep the gun dead on.

I put my gun over a chrono/BPS meter this weekend. I was shooting ramping and leading to the ramp my chrono was 298, 297, 298. At the ramping it registered 296, 296, 296 for the next three. I don't care what you are shooting, keeping your chrono that tight is amazing!

Now to the downside, I am not a huge fan of the open bolt, I play in FL and our field is next to the beach. We constantly have sand getting on the turf and killing our guns (hence the reason I clean it every night). But even with the cleaning my bolt has taken a beating. It is torn up and I have a new one being ordered for me this week.

Open/closed is a personal choice, I love the open bolt but the field that we are practicing at isn't very condusive to the open still, I still break less paint than the M8 guys though.

My last piece of advice, if you do have the money, do NOT get the new DM8. We have 2 of them on my team and they are down more than they are running and even when they are running they are shooting like garbage. Bob has always made a great product and he did another good one with both the protege and the vice.

If you like 3D milling do the vice, if you like the hard edges of the protege go with that. You can up a protege to a vice for a little less than $200. You can go beyond the Vice for about $250 and will have all the ups that are available right now.

Tough choice, you should post a survey and let everyone choose what they would pick up. Maybe it would help you figure it out!

[fprandy]

Great post. Thanks. You brought up some outstanding points. I'm in Minnesota, and at this minute, it's 5 degrees above zero. I play indoors.

Summertime in Minnesota? I had to work both days last year.

Sand still gets in closed bolt systems, not as much, but even one grain of sand can shred an o ring and you're done.

We don't get your temperature changes and humidity here, they will raise hell with closed bolt guns. Sure, you can make the adjustments necessary for good performance, but someone has to know how. Adjusting the LPR, Dwell and reg pressure on a closed bolt gun, well, makes the difference between shooting like garbage and shooting ropes.

My son and I have both. Open bolt and closed bolt guns. In a tournament setting there isn't always time to make adjustments. Easier to switch guns at that time.

Your team with the DM8's, wish it wasn't so with the chopping and poor shooting issues. They are good guns when set up correctly. Chopping in a DM is a simple issue to correct. DM's don't have as strong a detent as Bob's guns do. A lot of times it's the loader pushing balls past the detents. Especially seen during high rates of fire. Barrel breaks are corrected by lowering the LPR pressure and raising the dwell.

Back on issue now, you can buy two proteges for the price of one DM8, and have serious change left over for another loader and a tank.

[Daigz525]

Agreed that 2 proteges can be picked up for the cost of 1 DM8, that's 2 fully upped proteges at that!

As far as the DM8, one is chopping real bad and he's had our tech look at it every weekend now since he got it a month or 2 ago. The other one is just terrible, it isn't even a problem that we can fix. The Dye tech for us said that there is a manufacturing flaw with some of the internals. He has sent it back to Dye 2x already and it still isn't working right. About a week ago they sent him a brand new one to replace the one he had. It still isn't working right.

Dye has taken a serious step backwards this year while BL has created a new standard in this price range. You can't go wrong with any BL, it all depends on personal preference.

[fprandy]

Thanks for the info on the 08's. Up till now, everything I heard was good. Doing away with eye covers was uncomfortable, but that was the extent of the complaints.