Vice Upgrade Help

[killajp]

Hi All, wanted to get some feedback from you Vice owners on upgrades. I've had my vice for over a year now and only upgrade on it is the 4c eyes and an on/off. I recently shot my old marker (ION) and just couldn't believe the minimal kick it had. I wanted to know if getting an LP poppet or the Lurker ram might help with getting my vice shooting with less kick. Not really comparing the performance of the ION to my Vice but wanted to improve my Vice's kick. Currently running stock settings on the Tadao board, LPR is at 75 psi. Don't know HPR since I do not have a gauge, but I consistently chrono at the field between 270-280 fps.
I've read up some discussions on the Lurker Ram on PBN but looks like there were more discussion on the negatives than the positives. If any of you that run the Lurker Ram and/or the LP Poppet, please give me both the negative and positives on both upgrades. Can't afford to get both so hopefully I can get enough input to make an informed decision. 'Preciate your help!!!

[juit]

get lurker and use heavy insert on it, dont get LP and lurker eigenram unless you shave the ram tip, the problem with lurker rams its that most of people want to tune the gun at the prior playing, it takes some time but once U get it runing you will be happy also you will have a great custumer suport with him, LP valve is a drop in upgrade it will kill a pod 1/2 of Ur effcy but it will use lower pressures LP & HP

buy a good box of paint and tune it with that, dont use crappy white box paint or youll get a crappy tuning

before tuning your vice please build a HPR tester

[killajp]

Thanks juit! I don't mind doing the fine tuning and agree that good paint and barrell bore matching should always be used. Have to see what I can do about the HPR tester though.

I'm only going to run either the Lurker ram or the LP poppet, not both (heard a lot of inconsistency when doing both). I'll have to read up on the Lurker manual for the fine tuning instructions. Any break in period for the replacement spring that comes with the Lurker ram?
LP poppet drop in is a great advantage since dwell might be the only change I need besides the lpr and hpr settings. Efficiency shouldn't be a problem since I usually only carry a max of 800 rounds per game.
Any comparison on which product made the best improvement on less kick? I know each marker is different so each outcome will be different but wanted to get a feel on the general results.

[juit]

LP is the way then
175HPR 65LPR
some times -1 dwell

this is what I do to all my timmys that I need em running for performance only
take 10 grams off the ram at the shop "this is optional"
I hone polish regulators, both ram sleeves "in the vice" and ram
stock HP valve opened 1mm so it acts as a LP poppit
add a Xray film in the back ram cap to act as a ping sound supressor
my bolt
I leave for a day in a vice the spring 3/4 pressed

the only way I had run the lurker ram with a LP valve was adding a ram tip oring as a front bumper in the ram, this will eliminate the extra mechanical dwell you have
this works great and eliminate a lot of vibration of the marker

[Six_Shooter]

I have an LP poppet, I used for all of one day of play, didn't notice any appreciable difference from the stock poppet.

I haven't used an Eigenram, even thought I've though about getting one, I have a few Necrorams I plan to play with by adding some weight to them, I think they are just too light.

I have what I consider to be little kick, just by tuning my stock parts vice. I run a dwell of 7 to 7.5 depending on how the conditions are that day and how the chrono is reading, LPR usually of about 70, sometimes I can get away with 65 or so PSI, but I find better consistency at 70 most of the time. The upgrades I do have, are Yakuza, Gear Drive, 4C eyes, and an Acid Customs trigger, none of which will really effect the way the Vice shoots.

I had an HPR tester for a while, and other than trying to compare tuning on that particular day, it's really not useful IMO. LPR tester is though, since LPR seems to have the most effect on kick.

[juit]

sorry, but it does
changes sound signature
uses less LP PSI and less HP to operate
I think something wrong with ur vice

[oldironmudder]

sorry, but it does
changes sound signature
uses less LP PSI and less HP to operate
I think something wrong with ur vice

Every marker is different & will react differently to the same part. Plus yalls locations & current condition can affect how they act.

[Six_Shooter]

sorry, but it does
changes sound signature
uses less LP PSI and less HP to operate
I think something wrong with ur vice


My Vice works perfectly.

I just didn't notice any "OMGZorZ! IT'S SO MUCH GUDER! LP POPPET IS WINZ!" difference. It felt the same to me, other than a possible slight loss of efficiency, that with a marker that gets a case off a 68/4500 fill stock becomes less noticeable, than a less efficient marker. Any change in kick was so small that tuning with the stock poppet I was able to achieve the same feel.

Sound signature can be changed with a pressure difference, or a barrel change. Since I've used carbon fibre barrels, the sound has stayed relatively the same, regardless of tuning, unless I changed something drastically.

Think about what you just said though, if the LP poppet uses both less LP pressure and less HP pressure, why does the efficiency go down? The LP pressure stays the same, the HP pressure goes down, but with a longer mechanical dwell time, causing the valve to stay open longer for the same electronic dwell time.

BTW, there are things called periods, they look like this -> .
There are things called capital letters that are accessed by pressing the "shift" key at the same time as a letter, the difference looks like this -> No shift key: c With Shift key: C
It's "your", being a possessive verb, not "ur."
It helps to use proper grammar and spelling to be taken seriously. ;)

[juit]

my vice works perfectly.

I just didn't notice any "omgzorz! It's so much guder! Lp poppet is winz!"

btw,...
it's "your", being a possessive verb, not "ur."
it helps to use proper grammar and spelling to be taken seriously. ;)

bipolar?

CF barrels are loud and he didnt said he has one
I never said you get more pods of a LP valve
LP valve works and does what's built for, he wants to reduce the kick and he does not care the air effcy
plus opening the stock poppit is a reversible mod and if he dosent get anything he can just tight it up again, so whats the big deal?
making fun of my spelling won't prove you are correct A+ on spelling F on reading ;)

[Megatron]

A+ on spelling F on reading ;)


http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/cat-youjustgotserved.jpg

OK, seriously guys, play nice

[killajp]

Thanks Six_Shooter and juit for your responses. I appreciate both of you giving your honest feedback on the products and mods you have installed on your Vices'. All of us wants our hard earned dollar to go to the best product for our markers and feedback is crucial in helping to decide what products to buy. (forgot to mention that I also upgrade to a Critical trigger and Stiffi Switch kit for the barrell)

Juit, you have these great ideas I can use for the low cost upgrades. Might try out the 1mm HP extension on the cup seal and xray film back cap mod. Not too sure on my abilities to polish the internals since I do not have the materials or equipment, although I did kind of do the hand polishing trick on my old Spyder markers (polished hammer and bolt breach). For the xray film mod, do I just cut a circle of xray film to fit the back cap and glue it there?

Six_shooter, thanks for letting us know how the affects of the LP poppet on your marker was. I read other reviews that had the same the outcome as your marker. I never really thought about fine tuning the Vice since it shot great out of the box, but since you and, I'm assuming, a lot of other people have made some adjustments on the dwell and probably sweet spotted the Vice, I am inclined to do some fine tuning on my Vice too. It will be the first time I will touch the board settings so I need to make sure to read up on the Tadao manual.

Looks like with some fine tuning and some mods, I may be able to see some improvement on reducing the kick from my Vice without having to spend any money :) !!! I'm kinda leaning towards the Lurker ram too since it is cheaper than the LP poppet.

[juit]

anytime I'm here to help